tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14199749.post6500234647361269349..comments2023-07-05T09:05:15.394-04:00Comments on the lower case: more on god's "ignornace"stephen lee cavnesshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12760138041488885844noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14199749.post-36076573338965459702007-09-10T22:25:00.000-04:002007-09-10T22:25:00.000-04:00julie, i am glad that you did decide to post a com...julie,<BR/> i am glad that you did decide to post a comment.. please feel welcome to anytime.<BR/><BR/>you raise valid points that are logical outworkings of this position.<BR/><BR/>i would say, though, that those who promote open theism do have answers to these type of questions. they are intelligent people and i in no way want to make them out to be idiots. there are some adherents to open theism with many degrees in many fields.<BR/><BR/>but i still disagree with them because their premises are contrary to the god of scripture and as are the logical outworkings of their views.<BR/><BR/>a good (and surprisingly small.. paperback less than 150 pages) book on teh subject dealing with the questions you asked is "their god is too small" by bruce ware.stephen lee cavnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12760138041488885844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14199749.post-74658365483200262452007-09-10T22:19:00.000-04:002007-09-10T22:19:00.000-04:00Stephen, For some reason I always hesitate to mak...Stephen,<BR/> For some reason I always hesitate to make posts, but I'm going to attempt it now. I'm glad you are blogging on these topics, I've wanted to learn more about them. <BR/> This quote stands out to me as ONE of the more confusing( all are confusing!)<BR/>Quote:<BR/>"it is always possible that <BR/>even that which God in his unparalleled wisdom <BR/>believes to be the best course of action at any given <BR/>time may not produce the anticipated results in the <BR/>long run"<BR/><BR/> Could this mean that God in his unparalleled wisdom may not know if his own son's blood was enough to save his creation from his own wrath? OR is this the one thing that he does know. Was God thinking " I hope this works, it's the best I've got." I certainly think not. <BR/> Also if this -open theism- is true how can we take the scripture, God's word, as our final authority, it seems that if god doesn't know or control this world then his word would also continually change along with his response to our decisions? <BR/> Man is the one in control here, and like Mike said, its a good thing man decided to crucify jesus...otherwise....? <BR/> Do they have answers to questions like these? I'm sure their attempts are coming in future posts, I'm curious to know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14199749.post-13157581738210507132007-09-10T22:16:00.000-04:002007-09-10T22:16:00.000-04:00i rejected a comment submitted by someone new to o...i rejected a comment submitted by someone new to our conversation. though it was disagreeable with conclusions drawn here, the reason it was rejected was due to personal comments made in regard to mr. challies.<BR/><BR/>if i had the capability to "edit" comments, i would have simply erased the part regarding mr. challies, but i do not have the capability (as far as i know).<BR/><BR/>if you would like to re-submit a comment, minus your assessment of mr. challies, feel free and i would be glad to allow it.<BR/><BR/>-stephenstephen lee cavnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12760138041488885844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14199749.post-24181664990898042092007-09-10T16:46:00.000-04:002007-09-10T16:46:00.000-04:00thanks for your prayers and observations mike!shau...thanks for your prayers and observations mike!<BR/><BR/>shaun,<BR/> you make a good observation regarding the "repent" passage. what makes it even more perplexing is within the same few verses god also says that he is not like a man that he would repent!<BR/> so yes, there is a logical explanation there.. we';; get to it..<BR/><BR/>-stephenstephen lee cavnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12760138041488885844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14199749.post-22744961958837875722007-09-10T16:36:00.000-04:002007-09-10T16:36:00.000-04:00I think our discussion about God's timelessness ha...I think our discussion about God's timelessness has gone about as far as it can go. I enjoyed the dialog!<BR/><BR/>There is a lot of interesting stuff in this latest post. I can certainly see where Tim is coming from in a lot of his commentary. I hope the next installment will discuss some counters to the proponents' arguments.<BR/><BR/>For example, the verse dealing with God regretting making Saul king. The Bible there literally says "regret" or KJV says "repenth" (1 Sam 15:11). This is a verse that seems to, even without Boyd's extrapolations, back up open theists' claims. Tim does not actually deal with the verse in his commentary - he simply points out how silly it is to think that God would actually regret something.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps there is a mistranslation from the original texts. Perhaps the verse is widely understood to mean something different. Perhaps God is using language that is built for our understanding, when what is really going on is much more complicated.<BR/><BR/>I am not saying that the verse can not be dealt with, I am just surprised that Tim seemed to write it off and leave it hanging. Maybe the next post will have more counter arguments?<BR/><BR/>I'm liking the thought provoking stuff. Keep it coming.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14199749.post-68574458410555938572007-09-10T14:48:00.000-04:002007-09-10T14:48:00.000-04:00Thanks for the update on your back...we'll definit...Thanks for the update on your back...we'll definitely be praying.<BR/><BR/>The quotes from Boyd and Sanders are very perplexing for me. As I was reading them I couldn't help but think about Acts 4:27-28 "for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."<BR/><BR/>Are we to believe that God could not know, predestine, or plan the crucifixion of Jesus as this passage states? Did he simply make him available hoping for his death but not really knowing if these people would carry it out? This logic (or lack thereof) seems to suggest that Christ's atoning sacrifice had a chance of not happening. I guess God let out a sigh of relief when it happened.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again Stephen for posting on this important issue. Get well soon!Mike Grosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014751002226336175noreply@blogger.com